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RE: My 2306cc engine build

AMorgan — Mon, 21 Jul 2008 16:58:20 GMT

Damn, glad I wasn't driving it then, that would have really torqued me off. I didn't leave my friends place until about 10 this morning.

RE: My 2306cc engine build

preludeman92 — Mon, 21 Jul 2008 15:51:32 GMT

Without those pistons I would have needed a lot of custom head work or custom piston. These let me use everything as is.

Speaking of morning commute, mine was just a hair over 2 hours today. Someone rolled a Kia Sportage in middletown and shut down I75 north. I have a picture of the rolled car. It's nasty looking.

RE: My 2306cc engine build

AMorgan — Mon, 21 Jul 2008 14:00:53 GMT

Your saving grace is pistons? I would have recommended them anyway... they make the engine work better. BTW, missed you on the morning commute today, buddy.

RE: My 2306cc engine build

preludeman92 — Sun, 20 Jul 2008 18:23:33 GMT

Here is the saving grace to my build

There have been a few setbacks to my build schedule... the rest of my parts should be in my hands next weekend if all goes well.

Working on custom rod bolts as well

RE: My 2306cc engine build

preludeman92 — Tue, 27 May 2008 15:14:24 GMT

Thanks for the encouragement Cisco. I'm having a hell of a time getting things to work like you're guessing. I got my taxes back and thought, why not put forged internals in the motor? Then I rememberd I need to put a downpayment on a newer car.

I do have a lead on a way to get this done fairly quickly though. Details if it works.

RE: My 2306cc engine build

HondaFan81 — Tue, 27 May 2008 11:38:10 GMT

Hope you find some definite plans for your project and get the bottom end built. I figured you were going to have a tough time getting components that work for this hybrid build. As you know, I'm personally a fan of simplicity and this is far from. Make sure you make a list of all the parts you end up using, so you know what to replace things with in case you have problems later. On your headgasket issue, I was going to be surprised if you pulled something off, already been there, done that. That is how companies operate, RARELY will you get a one-off on things, too expensive, unless their manufacturing processes are versatile and cheap to change-over or you pay up the wazoo for a one-off.

This is going to be one whore of a motor when this is all done.

RE: My 2306cc engine build

aquila — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 22:55:31 GMT

...and don't forget a Sneaky Pete e-brake handle. Seriously, I can't wait to hear this Frankenstein run.

Burt, may I offer the hope that your end result on this engine build is better than this example:

http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/tech/0311scc_sr20_engine_buildup/index.html

RE: My 2306cc engine build

preludeman92 — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 22:23:08 GMT

Enough to fill the trunk, make a steering column, shifter, and wheels out of them.

Or send a Kia Rio into orbit

RE: My 2306cc engine build

AMorgan — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 20:12:33 GMT

Ah, but how MANY sneaky petes!?

RE: My 2306cc engine build

Grey bush — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 16:34:50 GMT

If you go with spray then you MUST USE Sneaky Petes.

RE: My 2306cc engine build

Blackielude91 — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 14:03:24 GMT

I've been looking around for you, and may have found an interesting gasket solution. Still waiting on a reply, but it looks promising.

RE: My 2306cc engine build

preludeman92 — Thu, 03 Apr 2008 12:50:53 GMT

A thicker head gasket moves the head away from the block, letting me use taller pistons on longer rods, netting higher compression.

However, I just heard back from Cometic. Unless I order and pay up front for 75 gaskets, they won't make me a custom gasket. So much for "no minimums, quick turn around, and very affordable completely custom gaskets". They define custom gaskets as changing the thickness of a gasket they already make.

RE: My 2306cc engine build

AMorgan — Thu, 03 Apr 2008 11:29:27 GMT

How does a thicker headgasket increase compression?

RE: My 2306cc engine build

preludeman92 — Thu, 03 Apr 2008 08:54:12 GMT

TSX or 08 accord pistons will net about 11:1 compression, which is idea, but I'd have to buy both pistons and rings new from honda for either of those setups.

Anything that fits a k24 at 87mm is going to fit perfectly into my motor. The advertised compression of those pistons/that motor will be the compression of my motor, +/- 0.1 compression. I've actually though about ignoring my logical side and sleeving the block, boring it to 89mm, and getting custom rods and pistons just because I can... I'd suddenly gain 110cc's of displacement shoving me over 2.4L and whatever compression I want with a high redline as a bonus. I guess I need to start planning for when I graduate in june 2010

Anyways...

My other choice is use h22 pistons on f23 rods (already have them with new rings on them!) and either machine the head or run a thick head gasket. However, no one makes an off the shelf head gasket for the f23 other than honda, and they are only .025" thick. I need atleast .060" thick. I'm waiting to hear from Cometic about making a custom gasket for me. A .065" thick gasket would net me 12.5:1 compression That'll mean getting larger injectors though. I can deal with larger injectors if it means more power though.

None of these options will be cheap or easy, including the accord pistons, but it might be the cheapest.

RE: My 2306cc engine build

kpro — Thu, 03 Apr 2008 07:55:05 GMT

spray is ghey. A little turbo would be sweet, but that's not cheap. Ummm wow, thats a lot of compression to loose from your original plans. Is there other pistons you could use that would net higher compression, that aren't way out of the budget?

RE: My 2306cc engine build

Blackielude91 — Wed, 02 Apr 2008 22:56:20 GMT

hrm, well at least it will still be your crazy hybrid motor, just no steroids haha. spraying? thats a new one on me, i thought you were pretty against nitrous.

RE: My 2306cc engine build

preludeman92 — Wed, 02 Apr 2008 21:00:20 GMT

So I came up with a quick and cheap solution that is a bit of a compromise

Being the freak I am I have a set of k24 accord pistons for no reason. They happen to fit perfectly on the f23 rods and into the f23 block. I previously dismissed them because of a weird valve bump in the piston. Well, I picked up some modeling clay today on my way home from school so I could measure piston to head and valve clearance.

The pistons fit under the head and have actually more clearance than a stock h22 has. I didn't get to recheck the clearances when the valves open because I ran out of time tonight... that's tomorrow. The best part is these pistons are the same size as the bore already in the block, so it doesn't have to go back to the machine shop at all! Just new rings and it's done!

Now, the compromise is my compression will drop from 11.8:1 to 9.7:1 compression if this ends up working. The lower compression will let me run a lot more agressive ignition maps and maybe some spray or a small turbo if I really get bored with the power it'll make. I don't think the power difference will actually be that much though.

RE: My 2306cc engine build

kpro — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 14:44:05 GMT

$38.86 per piston, $27.49 per ring set eeeeek. Thats @ cost + 10% (employee price)

RE: My 2306cc engine build

preludeman92 — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 12:21:39 GMT

I went to the machine shop today. They measured the pistons and cylinder walls. They were just barely within spec and the walls were properly honed already. So I brought the block home to put it together while the head is getting done. I bolted the first 2 rods to the crank and went to turn the crank to install the other 2 rods.

I HAVE A HUGE PROBLEM!!!

The rod is too short! The pistons bottom out in the cylinder and only let the crank rotate about 80 degrees!!!

I've got 2 options:

New pistons or rods, or use stuff I already have (JDM h22 pistons on f23 rods) and have the head machined to fit.

2008 accord pistons or TSX pistons would be a perfect fit and net 10.7:1 compression. Milling the head to fit "correctly" is going to make it about 12.1:1 compression. I don't really want to mess with machining the head though. Dropping the compression isn't high on my list of things to do, but that means my injectors will be plenty large. 12:1 compression means I will need larger injectors.

Ugh, this sucks. Kristen, can you get me a price on pistons and rings from an 08 accord EX?

RE: My 2306cc engine build

Blackielude91 — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 10:01:31 GMT

those springs look nice man. still can't wait to see this thing scream

RE: My 2306cc engine build

AMorgan — Wed, 26 Mar 2008 18:37:27 GMT

Lol, fine, I didn't want to go with you anyway.

RE: My 2306cc engine build

preludeman92 — Wed, 26 Mar 2008 15:08:08 GMT

Eh, I'm going tomorrow to one in Indiana about 10 minutes from Kyle's house.

RE: My 2306cc engine build

AMorgan — Wed, 26 Mar 2008 09:37:53 GMT

Burt, if you want a tag along to the machine shop, let me know.

RE: My 2306cc engine build

preludeman92 — Wed, 26 Mar 2008 07:03:00 GMT

lude4lifeh22 (3/25/2008)

damn, make me wet my pants.

Just wait until the whole thing goes together and gets on the dyno. It should have a muscle car lope and a honda scream at the same time

RE: My 2306cc engine build

lude4lifeh22 — Tue, 25 Mar 2008 22:58:56 GMT

damn, make me wet my pants.

RE: My 2306cc engine build

preludeman92 — Tue, 25 Mar 2008 20:21:48 GMT

I got new parts yesterday!!! My new valve train came in! The Rocket Motor Sport H23 valve train came with custom springs, Ti retainers, and Ti seats, plus a littel cam lube.

I believe Intake is on the left and exhaust is on the right.

RE: My 2306cc engine build

preludeman92 — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 11:59:08 GMT

This project is finally moving forward.
I've had 1 battle after another. I had purchased JGE Dual valve springs/retainers from a seller on eBay. After 53 days of saying they had shipped I had enough and filed a complaint. 2 hours later I had the money back in my account.
I now have Rocket Motor Sport single springs and Ti Retainers on their way.
Then, the machine shop I was going to have do all the work necessary flaked out. That shop will remain nameless. As soon as my springs show back up I'm taking the whole thing to a new shop recommended to me by the local speed shop. This shop says a 1 week turn around.
The cams are in Canada right now getting ground.
Pirate McFred sent me his fuel map as a good baseline for me. Hopefully it will work for break-in until I can get to the tuner in CBus.
I've got a new header here with a 2.5" collector mod, and the car has new springs and some Energy Suspension bushings on it now. It's getting a brake upgrade in the next week or so.

All this means my goal of driving the car with the new motor on my birthday (easter) isn't going to happen. New goal is 2nd weekend in April.

RE: My 2306cc engine build

preludeman92 — Tue, 01 Jan 2008 21:04:54 GMT

I talked to the owner of Colt Cams yesterday. He seems like a really nice guy that really knows his stuff. He said his "straight up cam" made 32WHP and 44WTQ on a 2.2L Ecotec, with nothing else done... the OBD2 computer was left to adjust what it needed. 2 weeks went by and it finally threw a CEL, so he stuck in a Tri-Flow cam, made 30WHP and 45WTQ over the baseline, didn't throw a code, and most importantly, made a huge amount of power over the straight up cam below 3000rpm.

More on the honda side of things, his Tri-flow cam made 23WHP on a D16Z6 using the stock P28 ECU, no tuning, with an intake and fart can exhaust. I started telling him about my setup and a couple concerns about idle/powerband I had. He seemed convinced with his cams I should be sitting about 230WHP around 6000rpm, and with the tri-flow cams, I'll have a reasonable idle around 1000-1100rpm. He also said these cams will make good power up to about 7500rpm on a B18 LS teggie, and I'll have the same grind as those. He assured me that the H23 (in stock form anyways) loves these cams and normally make about 25whp over stock cams and has no lope. I'm excited for these things!

RE: My 2306cc engine build

Grey bush — Wed, 26 Dec 2007 16:25:07 GMT

Kyle should grab those for his CRV.

RE: My 2306cc engine build

preludeman92 — Wed, 26 Dec 2007 09:29:56 GMT

I don't think those cams would work. The valve springs/retainers from that motor may work, but I'm just gonna get stuff designed specifically for the H23 instead.

RE: My 2306cc engine build

madcatz — Wed, 26 Dec 2007 00:13:23 GMT

can a set of crower cams from a B20B work for you? If so, I have a set you can get off of me for cheap.

dont ask me how I have these...lol

RE: My 2306cc engine build

Grey bush — Sat, 22 Dec 2007 23:14:58 GMT

Between you, me and Kristen alone I cannot wait for spring meet. That thing is going to be sick.

RE: My 2306cc engine build

preludeman92 — Sat, 22 Dec 2007 20:23:39 GMT

Bump for pictures on first page.

waiting on everything to come back/go to machine shop.

Final build list:

F23 block
H23 Head
K20A3 rods
H22 Type S pistons
ACL bearings
ARP Main Studs
ARP Head Studs
Colt Cams Tri-flow cams (biggest available for h23!)
KMS valve springs
Blacktrax Stage2 intake manifold
68MM Professional Product Throttle Body

Waiting to hear from ARP to find out if they make any bolts that will work with my rods.

RE: My 2306cc engine build

HondaFan81 — Mon, 10 Dec 2007 12:53:38 GMT

I hope that all these parts work out for you. However, I get the feeling you'll run into issues and need to modify things you didn't first consider. Heck, I had to for parts that were specific to my application, so doing a hybrid I'm looking at as a given. Be prepared.

RE: My 2306cc engine build

Blackielude91 — Fri, 09 Nov 2007 11:26:07 GMT

sweet dude, i cant wait to see this thing come together over christmas break.

RE: My 2306cc engine build

preludeman92 — Fri, 09 Nov 2007 10:25:31 GMT

I've not forgotten about this. Things keep comming up, like my latest decission.

Type S pistons fit perfectly on the rods I'm using and will give me a little added compression and comfort. They are the A sized pistons, so I'm going to have the block honed to fit (I'm using B sized pistons now, B is smaller). I also get new rings out of the $209 set. The pistons I was gonna use needed new rings anyways, so an extra $80 for better pistons is a good deal to me.

That unfortunately sets me back a little. I'm hoping that my co-op job will let me start a little early so I can make some extra bucks. I will have this thing assembled by the first of the year dammit! I'm hoping it will be in the car and running by mid-january/early februrary. That will give me more than enough time to break it in properly so I can have Corey tune it in march. This thing should put down some scary numbers at the spring time dyno day. Everyone that isn't F/I, watch out

RE: My 2306cc engine build

preludeman92 — Tue, 28 Aug 2007 09:22:00 GMT

Hikari no Tenshi (8/28/2007)

Sucker! You don't have to pay a fall bill if you never paid your summer bill!

Did you drop out or something then? Or did you finally graduate?

RE: My 2306cc engine build

AMorgan — Tue, 28 Aug 2007 08:09:31 GMT

Sucker! You don't have to pay a fall bill if you never paid your summer bill!

RE: My 2306cc engine build

lude4lifeh22 — Mon, 27 Aug 2007 09:37:54 GMT

teh suxxors, school is ghey like that.

RE: My 2306cc engine build

preludeman92 — Sun, 26 Aug 2007 21:42:22 GMT

So, UC sent me my bill for fall quarter. It's painful. School is more important than the car. That means the engine build will be put on the back burner for a while. I paid for k20 rods the day before I got my bill, so I have them comming. when they come I'll probably send them to the machine shop to get the h22 pistons fit to the rods since it'll cost less than a tank of gas for that to happen.

I have to wait to finish assembly because the ARP rod bolts cost $100, the cams will cost $300+, the valve springs cost $150, the last of the gaskets cost close to $100, and I've got to find a civic ECU to get my hondata into (and pay to do that to). I'll probably get the rest when the winter season comes around...When the prelude goes into storage. Then it'll come out in march (weather pending) to have it's newest heart put in. Then I'll have it towed to the local perforance shop to have it street tuned. I"ll then proceed to break in the motor for a few hundred miles, and have it dyno tuned. I talked to the local shop and they said they've got a good baseline for what I'm doing, so tuning will be relatively quick. They supposedly got 212 WHP from a 5th gen with a typeS swap. I didn't see the dyno chart though. They said they'd use that map, but have it run in VTEC the entire time for me.